he is right.

unfortunately majority of our conservative educated middle class acts irrationaly and threatened when questioned about taliban. as nadeem F paracha put it....they act like social time bombs that go off when their firmly held beleifs are being proven wrong or even questioned.

i have some very good educated university friends that still wont drop this line "but yaar talibans are muslims.....why are we killing them.....and arent they against america...so why are we helping america" their logic is restricted and blocked beyond that.

when i simplified and told them that we have only 2 chioces left now (1) exterminate the taliban or (2) hand the country over to them so they can take us to the 12th century.......my frinds were in a dillemma !!

Why don't you tel us that kool? Have you been there lately?

Plant a tree

NFP stretches it a bit too much..

Stretches it to the limit of ridicule

"People are dying, children are starving and women are wailing!"

This is not a joke.

umar baig: middle class is the silent majority and you cant find a single revolution in teh world which was established by elite class.
dont start on middle class. pakistan was rarely damaged by middle class. it is ruined by elite and upper class which are in fractions and they are controlling majority of wealth.

nadeem paracha should go to swat himself gettign out of his comfortzone and then we will beleive what he is saying.

the problem is not with the middle class itself...but the conservative mindset which is mostly prevalant in middle class.

now dont change the topic to middle class. who is to blame for the IDP's....taliban or the govt/operation?  are you saying that the operation shouldnt have been started and the whole northern part of country handed over to taliban? the only thing govt can be blamed is that theyre not doing enough for IDP's or they didnt plan well the IDP situation.

Conservatives are master spin doctors. Mianjee's last post was also a failed attempt. Perhaps he is not conservative enough :oD 

Postman, TTP is a terrorist organization involved in beheading, bombing civilians. I don't see how your comparison with NFP is relevant here?

Or perhaps these were the type of discussions NFP was referring to in his editorial. The irrational arguments and bizarre comparisons. Blaming everyone else but the Taliban, desperate to justify their brutalities. Comparing to everyone and everything. The IDPs, the Russians, the Americans, the Indians, the Iranians, anything which they can throw at us.

Plant a tree

'Puritanical Islam' & who defines it? Unless, for the sake of this argument, you have agreed to treat tribal culture from Arabia and Persia as 'puritanical Islam', I don't see how these conservatives are supporting it through backing this ideology. One after another buzz, I have demonstrated that Quranic teachings are completely opposite to what conservatives see as Islam in Pakistan.

NPF is a journalist, who decided to write about those who are exploiting IDP miseries to talk against army operation. These are the same people who opposed the operation from the very start. Most certainly they are no friends to Pakistan and perhaps neither to Islam.

NFP was in jail in Zia's era. Was very active in opposing US support for Musharraf too.

Zionist can be blamed and so can be Indians  and American where its due. Our current IDP problem has nothing to do with any of those three. 

Plant a tree

errrr......... moutain out of a mole hill :|

there is a difference b/w people who question the govts STRATEGY to fcuk the fanatics

and those who question whether the fanatics should be fcuked at all.

Few years ago our army was calling talbans as "ababeels" today they are calling them monsters. Those who created them are national criminals, must be punished.

The greatest national criminal died in a plane crash. His commanders on ground included Jimaat-e-Islami and General Hamid Gul, who polluted minds of innocent young Pakistani boys to kill people and get killed in the name of Jihad, and they are still alive.

It was indeed a Jihad, Americas Jihad on Soviet Union. Americans didn't even fired a single shot, laid a single life to mission accomplish. They had enough idiot 'Mujahadin' to do that for them.

Plant a tree

babar: e will fight abotu afghan jihad some other day.

peopel like you opposed bengal operation and we supported, at least we learnt something and now we are opposing it because we have seen that use of force cantbe helpful anywhere.
now situation is worst there. those fanatics come down from hills and after 3 4 minute shoot out go back in hide outs. then where our army fires rockets and 500 pond heavy bombshells???? if the miscreant belong to a tribe, should that whole tribe be punished??? in many months operations still they couldnot manage to kill the elders...why?

ISPR is the only source of information because no media people allowed to go there. It is teh same ISPR which was telling us Bengolies are traitors and balochies are indian agents. we beleive them and laters we came to know that that was all propoganda.both were askign for their rights.

if a Gen(zia and regeim) used us for amarican fight in afghanistan, what is the sureity that these are not using us for amarican fight thsi time????? if those were sellable so these are.

**************************************************
Umar baig, i doubt you can fuck them(not because they are pathan), UK tried for 93 years but couldnot, USSR tried for 10 years but didnt. Kill those fanatics but what about those masses who are suffering...if tommorow those 45 lac population of that area comes with stories like east pakistan, what will be you able to do???

Oh I see, fabricated tales of 1000 kids killed at Lal mosque has started to emerge for Swat operation too. When are we going to rid ourselves of these fabricated conspiracy theories and start to see things clearly? 

I wonder if it was mirages who were executing and beheading people in Swat? Mind you we are not fighting against Tribal here, we are fighting a specific criminal gang with Tribal being on our side, hence comparison with British or with USSR is quite bizarre.

I know Taliban sympathisers must be shifting in chairs, desperately waiting to cook something so their Taliban brethren can be saved from this punishment.

The silly comparison of Bangladesh with Swat is completely insane. Here you are fighting against people who were killing innocent Pakhtoon civilians there you were the one killing innocent Bangali civilians. In swat you are killing criminals in Bangal you were the criminals.

Apparently its JI sympathetics (Mostly Punjabis) who are calling it an operation against Paktoons while Paktoons themselves are happy to let army finish off these band of criminals. 

Leased war which we named as our own was the one Zia and its keep JI fought in 1980s against USSR. Today we are fighting to save lives of Pakistani citizens. 

Plant a tree

Fighting an unconventional war in conventional way,,,,,, isn't like aiming at mirage

You don't know who is funding these monsters, without knowing your real enemy, ,, u r aiming at mirage.

IDPs have reservation about this military action, so without the support of local people u can't win it,,,,,, still aiming at mirage

Those who said operation will finished in 3 moths, (it can take years) it’s an unrealistic approach,,,,, like aiming at mirage

Do we have resources to keep on military action and humanitarian work on such scale, miscalculated things are like,,,,,,, aiming at mirage

Since 2004, sending troops to this area, things are not improving, getting worst

There is no difference of opinion taking action against Lal masjid gang, but there are different ways to use force, those they knows the location of lal masjid, knows 1 month of  blockade was enough to control the situation..

babar for ur kind information, I was never supporter, sympathizer, or member of JI or IJT .

And I believe 99.9% Pakistani don’t support Taliban style.

 Every Pakistani want an indigenous policy against Talban,

avoid personal and ethnic attacks

mr babar:
explain me, ISPR says "talibans come from hills and after ambush disappear there."

then at whom they are bombing??? hills?

or talibans are gathering in mosques which are beign bombed???

i recommend you to meet IDPs and they will let you know with which fear they left their homes....

Mianjee,

Could you please tell me the strategic purpose of the pak army bombing hills and mosques if it were not to eliminate the taliban ?  the pak army has legal control of the country and they are just trying to take that control back.

As far as guerilla warfare goes, isnt that what the taliban or for that matter, any other insurgency uses ? people as human shields and places of worship as protected places ??

LMFAO Babar! this is really really good :-) the words and grammar so complement each other :-)

I really missed out on the meanings of Khanzeer and Kanjir.  I was really hoping to add two "Khaaliz" pakistani gaalis to my repertoire - alas, the admins acted before I could check any responses :-)

British, Russian and now American are failed to change dynamics of this area. What make us to feel, that we can do it by militarily. Are we more smart????

There is no military solution to this problem ; the Russians have been fighting the Chechens for 300+ years, Indians have been fighting Kashmiri's for 60+ years, Sir Lankans have been fighting the Tamils for 30+ years (this war is not over by any means), British have fought the Irish off and on since 1919 and the unstable peace is the result of eventual negotiations and recognition of the rights of the Irish, we all know all too well the example of the Palestinian struggle. History is simply replete with examples of gueriilla warfare where after years of bloodshed the two sides eventually find peace through negotiations and reconciliations; so why not start the process with that?